Part two of Clash’s editor Simon Harper in conversation with The Dead Weather – the full transcript (read part one HERE) from our current issue’s cover feature.
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Are you taking precautions about this album leaking? Are you worried about that at all?
Jack White: Those days are over, you know what I mean? Well, what can you do?
Alison Mosshart: You just cross it off the list.
JW: It sort of leaks the day it’s sold anyway, so…
It just ruins the element of surprise, doesn’t it?
JW: That’s all that I care about. That’s the hard part for me, that’s the heartbreaker for me, all the elements of surprise.
Jack Lawrence: I just don’t… I just can’t find an answer in my head, or talk to anyone and get an answer, but why do people want to ruin the surprise? What is the big deal? Why do they need to know?
AM: I don’t know. Cos people like having things that other people don’t have. It’s a power thing.
JL: A surprise is good. It’s nice to be surprised. Just let us surprise you.
As a journalist, when you get the album early, but if you enjoy it, you have to wait like a month and a half until you can enjoy it with someone else. It’s better when everyone gets the music together.
JW: Well we’re in that position now. We’re gonna go play Kentucky tonight. Nobody knows these songs – unless they looked at maybe a YouTube clip from our first gig… bad quality. You know what I mean? They don’t know what to compare it to. Say they go to the show tonight, and they love what they heard. And they record it themselves. And then the album comes out a month later. ‘Oh, this sounded better live.’ Now they’re comparing the album to the live show that came after the album. We’re already starting to change these songs, you know what I mean? That happened with The Raconteurs. We were changing songs completely before people even heard them, and then it was so comparative. And I’m a victim of it too. Like when I saw the Arctic Monkeys video – it was the first exposure I had to them – for the ‘I Bet You Look Good On The Dancefloor’ song, I loved it, you know, and I watched it like three times and I thought, ‘This is incredible’. And then when the album came out I wanted it to sound like it sounded in the video where the drummer sang in the background. So then I started thinking, ‘Well, maybe that was a mistake for that video to be live, because now I’m comparing this album to that. Maybe we shouldn’t do that.’ I don’t know what you’re supposed to do.
Do you try and keep up with the demand? Do you try and officially leak stuff to prevent anyone else doing it?
JW: The very frustrating part right now, to be in the music business is… it feels like you have to be… It’s a long explanation to this question. Sorry for just running my mouth here, but let me try and address it, because I think what’s happened here, like, what I’ve built here is the sum of the idea that, ‘Well, it looks like I have no choice. I have to be a salesman of my own art, whether I like it or not.’ Gone are the days where you could just be Johnny Cash, and everybody did everything else for you, and you just stumbled onto stage and sang some songs, then you went home and wrote some more songs. Now, you get approached like, ‘What kind of live session are you gonna do for iTunes, and what are we gonna leak, and what songs are you putting on MySpace, and we need to give these guys exclusive photos…’ and all that shit that I could care less about, really, you know? So now I’ve sort of been forced to care about it. So, if I’m gonna do it, I better do it well and better be hands-on and really involved in it, thinking that would lower the frustration of all that trickery – which is what I think it is, trickery. Like, give them a free song or give an extra track on iTunes when you buy the album and all that… It’s all desperate trickery to me. We tried it with The Raconteurs’ last album, like, ‘How about we just put out the album? Is that okay? Is that good enough for everybody? Before you even knew we made it, why don’t we just release it and then people can release it afterwards?’ Well, this is where we find out that journalists – excuse me – are not on the same team as musicians and artists. Neither are the VJs or the DJs or the editors – we’re not in the same business. And that’s what I thought; I thought we were all in the same business together, but sadly we’re not. Because it’s the Brazilian journalist who leaked The Shins’ album five months ahead of time. He doesn’t have any respect for The Shins’ music and he doesn’t care, so he’s not on the same team. The radio station that played [The White Stripes’] ‘Icky Thump’ weeks before it was released and gave it away to everybody – they’re not on the same team as us; they don’t care. So now, what are you supposed to do? Now you’re a singular artist or producer or creator who’s up against your own teammates, you know what I mean? And you’re supposed to take what you can get when they’ll work with you. MTV is not playing videos anymore, so are we supposed to make videos? ‘I thought you guys were called ‘Music Television’?’ ‘Well, we’re not on your team either.’ You know what I’m saying?
Of course. You either kick back against it and they hate you for it, or you go along with it and you both lose.
JW: Yeah, it’s very tough. We learned a lot with the last couple of releases, especially [with] The Raconteurs. I’m going to talk to Danger Mouse too and see what he’s doing now, releasing a blank CD with the artwork, and see what that’s doing – my guess is not much.
I think the product has been cheapened, hasn’t it?
JW: I guess so, huh?
It’s been a twenty-year process but music has eventually deteriorated to an invisible download.
JW: Well, we’re trying to do it here where we really have the vinyl and the tangible aspect. I mean, we’re listing these on iTunes as well, these songs and all the bands that will be coming out of this system, but we have to have a tangible quality to it. And I’m glad people are coming and lining up to buy vinyl.
Are they coming from far afield, or is it just locals?
AM: Really far! They’re driving like five hours. God, it’s crazy. It’s awesome.
You’ve covered Bob Dylan’s ‘New Pony’ on the album, which is quite an obscure choice. Why did you choose that?
JW: When we were starting… I always think when you’ve got a new project or even a new album, one idea I had was to pick a song – any song – and see how the band attacks it. We did it on the last Raconteurs album with ‘Rich Kid Blues’: ‘Let’s see how we play this.’ And how we play it, maybe it will morph into the idea of the mood of the album and something else will appear. So, with this band, we did that [Dylan] song and a Gary Numan song, which I thought was pretty far away from each other. Maybe there will be some middle ground in there; maybe we’ll find some blues out of Gary Numan; maybe we’ll find something modern and rhythmic out of that Dylan song. But then we’ll throw those away and move on. I think they both turned out so well. That’s a live take, that Dylan song. I don’t think any of us would have picked to put that on the album, on paper, but it turned out to have such energy to it because of Alison that it had to go on the record.
Will you try and see what he thinks of it?
JW: I don’t know if you could believe what that feedback was! (Laughs) It’s hard when someone covers your song; it’s flattering.
It’s good that the song is so different though; it takes it to another plateau.
JW: Yeah, and the gender change as well really makes the difference. It happened with the Stripes and ‘Jolene’ as well. Something about it really shakes people up into thinking about things from a different angle.
The lyrics on the album sound as vicious and raw as the music. Was The Dead Weather a cathartic release for your thoughts?
AM: It felt good! I mean, writing music is in general. It’s one of those things I have to do.
Are you living your fantasies out through your music?
AM: I don’t know. I can’t tell the difference anymore.
Do the songs take on a new lease of life when you play them on stage?
AM: I guess in a way. Performing is a strange thing. I just always love that line between you and everyone else. There’s so much adrenaline and there’s so much to get away with and to do anything you want – there’s no rules anymore. I have to do that. But I guess those songs do change. Sometimes they mean totally different things to me on different stages in front of different people in different rooms.
Is the brutality of The Dead Weather a diversion for you to release some energy by playing things loud?
JW: It feels different, yeah. It feels like a different territory than we’ve been in before – it feels that way for me. It has strength to it – it’s not feeble.
JL: It almost feels more natural to be more aggressive at this stage.
Even the press pictures that you released mirror the sound of the album – dark, portentous…
JW: Have you seen the album, the vinyl yet?
Yes.
JW: Have you seen the inside?
No.
AM: It’s scary.
JW: (Aside) Hey Swank, have you got the ‘Horehound’ vinyl cover?
It’s all quite intimidating!
JW: Yeah it is. (Album is brought to Jack.)
JW: Is this a finished copy? Oh, I haven’t seen this yet. I’ll show you first though.
*** Inlay photo shows black and white picture of the band looking menacingly up at the camera as if about to pounce; Jack’s arms are wrapped around Alison as if pulling her back. ***
It looks like a bungled kidnap attempt.
JW: Yeah. This photo session really sealed the deal for the band.
AM: (Laughs)
Was the name The Dead Weather a deliberate reflection of the sound you make?
JW: We can’t remember where it came from, but I know we were talking about names that convey a mood, which is hard to do, we learned. When you’re starting a new band, it’s strange, the pressure on… Like, if you just kinda accidentally start a band with your friends and you’re rehearsing all the time and a name comes out and you have that name, nobody thinks about it. I mean, nobody really thinks about the name The Beatles, but it’s a pretty ridiculous name, you know? (Lawrence and Alison laugh) The Beatles? Do you think, looking back, they’re like, ‘Did we…? Who picked that again?’ (Laughs) But you don’t think twice about that now. But when you’re starting something new, you think, ‘Wow, this has to have a name’, it’s different.
Were there any other contenders for the title?
AM: That’s great too: as soon as you pick a name and it’s your name, you forget all the other dumb things you thought of… thankfully.
Will you continue to base yourselves in Nashville?
AM: No, I still live in London, but I spend a lot of time on aeroplanes. It’s brilliant.
Have you been staying here indefinitely?
AM: The recording was pretty much the longest time I’d ever been here, twenty-one days. The time before that I was here for one day, then I came back again for like a week or something a couple of times.
Would you consider living here?
AM: In Nashville? (Others laugh) I don’t know. I like it though; I really do like it.
JW: You could get a room at LJ’s house.
JL: Yeah, they’re free! (Laughs)
AM: No, I think one reason I’d ever want to move back to America is to have a car, as silly as that sounds. I dream about it all the time, driving a car. I’ve really missed it for ten years. There’s no point in even having one in London. I love living there, but yeah, I kinda miss space and driving fast.
How long have you guys lived in Nashville?
JW: About four years.
Are you immersed in the musical heritage of the city? Is that what drew you here?
JW: The South just sort of drew me. It was only a matter of time, I think, before I was gonna end up living down south. I dunno, it just always feels comfortable.
AM: You need loads of time here to figure it out, because I’ve been here a million times before on tour and stuff and never really come to terms with the city at all, but it’s brilliant.
There is a new breed of musicians living in Nashville now – the Kings Of Leon live just up the road. Does it feel like there’s a new kind of scene developing?
JW: I don’t know; it’s hard to say. It’s a smaller town, you know? And of course the majority of people are here for country music, and that’s as alive and kicking just as long as it’s ever been, maybe even more so now. It’s difficult to not know the intricacies of that whole world, and I only know the fringes of country music and the old music – I don’t know the full-on modern style of it.
AM: It’s really weird getting on a plane from New York or Chicago – well, mostly New York or LA or something – and coming to Nashville, and pretty much everyone on the plane knows each other and they’re all talking about country music! It’s fucking crazy. You’re like, ‘Jesus!’ It’s like a field trip, but it isn’t; it’s just accidental. Every time!
The Kings said they hardly get bothered by the people of Nashville, despite being so famous. Do you find it the same for you?
JW: Yeah, it’s sort of like in certain areas of LA or whatever, people are sort of used to seeing famous country stars here, so they don’t really think… they’re used to that. And also, it’s sort of the Bible Belt, so people are way more polite here; it’s just coming offside of that Christianity thing, which is nice. A bonus.
So they won’t bother you, but they’ll go home and maybe Facebook something.
JW: I don’t know. What is that, toothpaste? (Laughs) I’m just kidding!
Going back to the fact that you’re playing drums on this album, there are songs where you’re both drumming and singing. Did you write consciously write these songs knowing you’d be drumming at the same time? Is that an easy thing to do?
JW: No, I didn’t think that, and it isn’t easy to do! (Laughs)
AM: You figured it out in like a second!
JW: There were moments there when it’s tough, but I like that challenge; it’s interesting.
So by the time you’re playing live they might have reverted to all 4/4 beats?
JW: Well, we’ve been doing alright. I think the hard part is the back-up vocals and how we approach it – how much we want it to sound like we recorded and how much we want to change it now.
So it’s a total afterthought?
JW: Yeah, that’s the tough part, you know? I used to do that in The White Stripes. I wouldn’t use an effect on a guitar because I didn’t want to have to take that effect pedal with me everywhere I go from then on, because then I’d have to use it. But then I sort of gave up by about the fifth album. It was restricting me in a different way. I was like, ‘Does it matter? No.’ Mostly because I wasn’t loading my own equipment anymore! (Laughs) But we had to think, back in the day, if something broke, that meant one more thing I gotta go find and get otherwise I can’t play such and such a song. I don’t have that restriction anymore.
Is it true that drummers have the best seat in the house? Is it good to watch the others up front?
JW: It is nice, yeah. It’s interesting not having to drive the show. Singing a song, you have the compellingness of the entertainer where you really have to bring everyone together as a community and drive the show in that way. So it’s different to see. And we’ll see what happens, you know, from whatever my personality is to being behind that drum kit – maybe it doesn’t work, I really don’t know. I would love to see us play. I’m sure preconceptions come with every member of this band from people seeing us in all these other bands to what they’re bringing to this. Sometimes I wonder if people think, ‘Oh, two plus two equals ten, because I love that band and that band, so this should be twice as good as those individual bands,’ you know what I mean? And it’s also a young band that no one’s really heard. I’m sure this album would look differently if we were four nobodies that no one had ever seen before, that they would take this album in a different light. Almost in the way that you think this could be a really, really great album, but if it’s not ‘Purple Rain’, maybe people don’t understand, ‘Why isn’t it this other thing?’ We’ll see what happens; I don’t know.
What are the chances of you having a Mötley Crüe drum kit that flies you to the front of the stage?
JW: Very good! (Laughs) No, I’ll stay grounded.
Do you think you can keep up your stamina having to drum so much every night?
JW: It gets better. It’s better for me. But I wonder…it will be interesting to see how much mileage you can put on compared to standing and performing.
You talked about the expectations of your fans – have you read any feedback or anything that’s been said about you thus far?
JW: There’s a temptation to do a couple of things: there’s a temptation to ignore everything – not read anything, not hear anything and only listen to the faces and the sounds from the crowd on the stage – or there’s a temptation to go the other way and absorb every single thing you can to completely understand the perception of your band. Sometimes it’s hard; sometimes you lose all idea of what the perception of what you do is. It’s impossible to tell. I’ve had backlashes before, and in the middle of a backlash you think it’s a hundred percent against you – everything is. But that’s not really the case, because you walk around outside and people tell you completely differently.
There must be times when you read something critical and realise they’re right and have perhaps gone a step too far.
JW: The written word is a powerful thing. I think they should start teaching that too, because of how much access young people have to blogging and Twittering and all those things. They should start teaching creative writing classes where they really inform new generations of how powerful the written word is and that it’s a responsibility…
JL: Because it won’t be. It won’t be powerful in a few years.
JW: Yeah, they’ll destroy it. You’re right.
You’re playing some American dates now, then are you coming over to Europe?
JW: Yeah, we’re just gonna try and get everywhere we can with the time we have. We’ll be over in London shortly and we’re gonna try and get a European tour booked…
You’re a bit late for summer festivals this year.
JW: Yeah, and I’m glad, because I’d hate to kick off a new band in Festival World. It’s kind of perfect that way – just do a couple… A new band should start at the club level and do small shows. We’ve already done a couple that way, and we’ll do more in the next few days.
Does this mean that all your other bands are on hold at the minute?
AM: Yeah, for the summer. I just finished a tour with The Kills which lasted forever; I just got off that tour so I’m just gonna take a little break, at least for a few months.
And pick it up where you left off when it feels right?
AM: Yeah, we gotta write a record.
And do it all over again! Does it ever feel like that, like a cycle?
AM: No. I mean, you can’t let it feel like that. It’s got to not be that. I wanna write a record because I wanna write a record, not because I have to write a record.
What have the reactions been like to the songs you’ve already played?
JW: It’s strange, because people just wanna kinda like take it all in, because it’s so new. I mean, I know if it was a brand new band, I would be kinda like… Because you don’t know the songs, so you’re kinda just absorbing it all. It’s gonna take a second before we actually understand the reactions. Like, for example, when we played New York, people had heard the single, and when we played the single it was a bigger reaction because that’s the one they knew. But you can’t really judge it by that.
Are you intent to make The Dead Weather a success or is the fact that you’re having fun and doing something different more important?
JW: Because you’re sharing with other people you sort of let them help you decide. If people are digging it and they want it and they want more of it then you’re inclined to want to give more, you know? And if it’s time to pull the curtains closed then you pull the curtains closed. I think everyone informs each other on what’s the thing to do. And especially the music itself – the music has a life to it and you keep going with it.
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The Dead Weather’s debut album, ‘Horehound’, is released on July 13 via Third Man and is reviewed HERE.
Read part one of this interview HERE.
