Fresh off the road with Bruce Springsteen and his E Street Band, Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame inductee Nils Lofgren is soon to be heading out again under his own name around the UK (see details below), taking to the stage the hits he amassed for last year’s ‘Face The Music’, a 10-disc retrospective of Lofgren’s 45-year career.
To mark the occasion, Clash has dipped into our archives and pulled out this 2010 interview with the man himself.
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You became a professional musician at the age of seventeen. It must have taken a fair bit of bravery to leave school and decide that was what you wanted to do.
I’m probably one in a million as far as rock goes so I would advise people to stay in school. I’d actually advise people to go the college and study music. I know there’s plenty of colleges regimented but there’s such an amazing amount to learn now, whether you’re dancing, singing, choreography, writing, scoring, reading, or all of the above. I’ve learnt that anything you learn you never know when it’s going to be applicable. I got lucky when I was seventeen in the mid-’60s; being a rock ‘n’ roll musician wasn’t a career in middle America.
Of course, back in the ’60s there was no video, there was no Internet, there was no cell phones, there was no choreography really. There was a lot of work in nightclubs, in fraternities, in colleges, in bars if you would play for very little money. That’s kind of a drawback today. There’s just not that kind of wealth of places to play, and of course back then our overhead was different. You rent a place with a few buddies, you got your water bill, gas and electric, there’s no cell phone bill, there’s no computer bill, there’s no big screen TV, and if you all just shared a place you could work. You might work hard and not get paid much but you could play a lot. I’ve just got a website, nilslofgren.com. Even though it’s grass roots it’s a great way to make CDs I’m proud of, make them available all over the world via the website without having to answer to a record company or an executive or doing any of that song and dance. If you have hit records and you’re making a lot of money for the company then I think you’re in a position to demand freedom and get it, otherwise it’s started getting taken away more and more.
I just saw the writing on the wall and I got out before it got too bad. I was always able to make records I was proud of but I realised that it was such a big business people thought, ‘You don’t have hit records so we’re going to tell you what to do’. They would make suggestions and suggest you pick some whether you and your producer like them or not, and I realised that that was just going to get worse. I love making music, I love touring and playing, I will continue to do that for the rest of my life. Not having hit records for the companies was a big drawback for them and it started looking like they were going to take too much musical control from people that I didn’t feel had any musical history or experience and I was able to get out of my last contract about fifteen years ago. It took about a year and a half, it was really a rough time, but once I got my freedom I realised I should never sign a record deal again.
I don’t say that’s necessarily advice for younger people. You get a contract, you get three opinions because inevitably there’s some fine print you’re not gonna like. It’s a very lopsided deal for the companies. Thanks to technology you can have a website and you can print up music cheaply, you can sell it at your gigs, you can sell it online, you can share music and play without a record company. Sign very carefully before you do it because it’s usually signing your life away for ten to twenty years, which is not a good thing.
You talked about the early days of the rock ‘n’ roll industry in the ’60s. Obviously it was a very unknown entity having a career in rock ‘n’ roll. Was it a risk for you?
We did play a lot and we were just getting by and paying our bills in a small time fashion and we were doing original music. We wanted a record deal; we went out to Los Angeles. We would work anywhere. We’d do a matinee at a mafia supper club in the afternoon for cocktail hour and we’d go out to Topanga Canyon, where we became the house band at The Coral, which was their local nightclub, and that was our whole life. We played anywhere and everywhere for anything or very little just for the experience or to keep playing our live new music in front of audiences to get a feel for what worked and didn’t. After a lot of ups and downs with bad management and agents we had David Briggs, Neil Young’s producer, taking us under his wing and helping us out. I was very nervous; I knew I didn’t know anything about the music industry and I knew that the odds weren’t good that I’d ever become massively successful, I just knew I had to play music.
I used to sneak backstage with my Telecaster and ask for advice from musicians, and I got a lot of advice; some people didn’t have time, some people did. A year later when I was eighteen-years-old I was asked to do the ‘After The Goldrush’ record and that was a very unusual, great opportunity. I think most people who drop out of high school looking to be a rock ‘n’ roll musician aren’t going to have that opportunity, I just got lucky. Put up with school, it’s a bureaucracy but put up with it and focus on music, and if you can get into a junior college or a college, study everything and anything. I read chord charts but I don’t read music. I can’t read a guitar solo and play it for you. I can improvise one for you. There’s no bad things to learn.
I was a musical director for CableAce Awards for the last five years and I had an arranger. I write melodies but I didn’t know how to score them and he would put them in the right keys. It was fun, it was a great collaboration. There’s so much information now that’s available, even in colleges, even for rock ‘n’ roll music in general that I would advise people to study music as long as you can. Just because you’re going to college taking some music courses doesn’t mean you can’t make your CDs at home on your home studio and put it out on your website and go play. You can do all of it. I made it and I got lucky and it worked out.
You mentioned Neil Young. When you joined his band he made you play piano, which obviously wasn’t you first choice of instrument. Does it serve you to be flexible on instruments or was it more a case of you kind of winging it?
I really wasn’t a piano player but Neil and David Briggs felt because of my classical accordion studies since I was five-years-old that I could work out a few simple piano parts. They had more confidence in me than I did and it worked out. The last ten years with The E Street Band, once we got Steve [Van Zandt] back in the band we had four guitar players. You don’t need four guitar players so I became the swing guy and learnt a little pedal steel, a little lap steel, a little bottleneck, six-string banjo. It was fun to learn all these new instruments and I’ve used them in my own music, probably bringing the lap steel to England, break it out on some country stuff.
Earlier this year, thanks to learning all these other instruments, I went to LA to be a lap steel session player for Jerry Lee Lewis on his new country record, which is coming out soon. That would have never happened if I hadn’t challenged myself to learn these other instruments. It’s a question of always learning and growing. Obviously some days I don’t want to try to write a new song for my solo record. I love playing guitar but I don’t have to play it every day and having these other instruments around the house to pick up and play is really exciting for me.
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Do drink and drugs become a temptation to musicians, more so than anyone else and how do you avoid it if so?
Especially back in the ’60s it was very prevalent. Fortunately there’s a lot less of that going on because people are getting professional. If you’ve got two musicians that are talented you’re going to go with the one with less baggage. There was certainly a party atmosphere to rock ‘n’ roll but we were scared about finding a way to be a band and making a living and going at it. Today kids get a lot more help from their parents. Back then you just never thought about mum and dad putting you in an apartment and paying your bills and helping you out with colleges – a lot of the times they couldn’t afford it and you needed to look out for yourself.
As a rock ‘n’ roll band we worked hard and we’d all live in a big farm house and share the rent and the bills and it was doable because there was a lot of work but you had be willing to work for very little and play a lot. The overriding thing was work. Obviously it was an awful lesson for all of us to watch our heroes – Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Brian Jones – all these people dying – Jim Morrison – people dying of drugs and alcohol. It’s a very fine line from social drinking turned into a problem. Most people that have a problem don’t ask for help and most people that ask for help don’t get it. It’s a rough thing, you’ve gotta be careful about it. I think alcohol is a great medicine if you can do it safely, which most people can – having a couple of drinks – taking an edge off from this crazy planet is a great thing. It’s good medicine used safely and most people don’t use it safely.
When Grin first ended, when the band was dropped, were you dejected at that point? Did you think that it would possibly stop you playing? Obviously you made the decision to go solo. What was your first reaction?
It was an awful time. I loved Grin, we didn’t want it to end and to our horror after four albums the company said, ‘That’s it, no more record deals’. We did a farewell concert at the Kennedy Center – we were the first the first rock band allowed to play there – and we tried to go out in style but it was an awful time. You feel like you’re a failure, and A&M Records took about three months to make a decision whether or not to let me carry on as a solo artist, which I didn’t even want to do, but I didn’t want to put another band together. Grin was my band, I loved those guys, so finally when they made the offer I didn’t see any other daylight to run to and I carried on as a solo artist and to this day all the bands I play with – including this acoustic tour I’m about to go on – I work with musicians where I want them to contribute and add a lot and cluster and sing.
Obviously it’s a big responsibility as well isn’t it, leading a band?
It’s something I’ve done for forty-two years this September. Next month will be forty-two years on the road. I’m quite comfortable doing it; it’s a lot of responsibility. If you’re in a great band with people you love and music you love it’s nice not to be the boss all the time. With the E Street Band I get a chance to be a part of a great musical team without having to be the leader, which is kind of refreshing, and it’s also a nice different musical view of something: play a lot of different instruments, playing the supporting role as opposed to always taking the guitar solo. I like playing guitar solos but I’d actually rather play rhythm guitar on them. You can’t do that in my own shows and I’m happy to do it all, but I get a chance to do a lot more of the colour and the supporting role stuff that I don’t get to do in my own shows
In terms of other bands that you’ve been in, the bandleaders, is there anything they’ve all got in common? Is there any reason why you like working with Ringo or Bruce or Neil?
Basically you wind up in situations, ideally which I’ve been blessed with, where the people want you to contribute and use your own ideas and respect you have an affinity for their music that doesn’t require a lot of coaching. Once you’re on the instrument they trust that your instincts are pretty good and you’re not going to have to be told what to play too much – you just have good instincts of when to play and what to play. I think because I’m a songwriter I naturally listen to songs and I’ve been blessed to not have to take work I don’t want. When I’m working with any of those people I’ve mentioned I love the music, I love the people and I’m really into it. I’m listening to the song so maybe given the better perspective of when to shut up and just listen and when to stick a lick in there or what to put in to enhance a song whether you’re playing in a four or five-piece band.
With Patti [Scialfa] we had seven-pieces, a little more fleshed out, some great singing, which of course I’m always a part of the background singing crew, which is fun. And that’s a whole other angle: doing singing rehearsals, which I love to do, and that’s a another aspect to do it, kind of another department if you will, in a band. With The E Street Band we’ve been out with horn sections – last year we had Curtis and Cindy singing with us, which is fabulous. We’ve got up to twelve members and having two full time singers was great for me because there was always a couple great singers and great people.
It’s just all part of being on a musical team whether it’s a small one – I’ve done some power trios on my own, just jam-type stuff – all the way up to a big E Street Band thing and everything in between. I love it all and it all kind of keeps me refreshed. In this case, after two years with E Street, when I come back to my own shows now I’m excited to put it back together. I’m a little rusty doing my own show but I’m not musically rusty because I’ve been out playing.
Talking of The E Street Band, when you first joined them they were about to tour the ‘Born In The USA’ album, which obviously was going to be monumental. Were there any concerns about joining the band in terms of having to suddenly be thrust into this mass machine?
I think they were just legitimate, more musical concerns. I’d been a fan of Bruce since the late ’60s; I’d bought tickets and seen him play through the ’70s and ’80s I loved the E Street Band. I’d been up to his home about six months before the tour and heard the record completed. I had nothing to do with making the record, and though it was a brilliant record, I certainly had no idea it was going to go on and become one of the biggest sellers of all time. At that point Bruce was playing sports arenas. In ’79 I did a stadium festival with The Who all over Europe so I was used to playing festivals, and in ’83 did the ‘Trans’ tour with Neil Young – we only played festivals all over Europe. I was used to the funky bars all the way up to the big stadium shows with the solo acts and I was comfortable in all those environments.
I love music, I love being in a band more than anything, on the road in particular, so when Bruce needed a guitar player, even though him and Steve didn’t figure it out ’til four weeks before opening night, which was certainly not enough time to feel like you own a body of work. That was nobody’s fault, that was just the reality and I had to look at it and realise nobody is going to love or respect Bruce’s music more than me, nobody thrives in a live environment in a band more than me, so somebody’s gotta do it. Even though it would be a bit overwhelming, I felt like no-one was going to have any easier time than me and it was going to be challenging and rough for a while, just the nature of the short notice. With that in mind I went out and jammed with the band for a couple days. Bruce called me and asked me to come out and jam with the band. I created an audition, I studied some of his songs, just so they don’t have to be yelling chords in my face, like: ‘‘Badlands’! ‘Promised Land’!’ I got a friend who brought a bootlegged copy of ‘Born In The USA’ by my house; he wouldn’t let me have it.
They could play some music and I could play along. We did that for two days and after two days it felt good. Obviously there was some reckless and rockiness to it. I remember walking into his home in Rumson where I’d been to visit him before and there was this dining room and this big old wood table and everybody in the band would sit down and there was one empty seat and I was like, ‘Well, someone’s gotta sit in it’. There’s a bit of nervousness to it because you want to do your job, you wanted to work, I wanted to be the right guy. If I wasn’t the right guy I didn’t want to be there and that’s why we spent two days playing and rehearsing, but I felt like I genuinely love Bruce and his music, I genuinely respect the band and there’s nobody that enjoys being on the road in a great rock band more than me.
I’ve just been on the road with too many people. I’ve been doing it for forty-two years; I don’t like leaving home anymore. I got a beautiful home, my dogs and cat give me dirty looks, I’ve got a lovely wife Amy who I don’t like to leave, and a beautiful home I don’t like to leave. When I get out there, thank God, walking in front of the audience becomes an even more special opportunity and I’m very grateful for the opportunity and I treasure it more than I ever have and towards that I realise that there’s nobody who’s going to relish the opportunity or the challenge more than me, whether I’m the right guy or not, let’s find out, and after two days of jamming with Bruce and the band he felt like I could be the guy and I said yes and it worked out. Everyone in the band was gracious and always gave me whatever time I needed, helped me out musically, but I was still the one who had to get on the road and figure it out. It took about twenty shows – I remember the twentieth show: I walked out feeling like I was at a new level of comfort and that was just a reflection of time put in. Fortunately that show went on for a hundred and sixty-five shows, so there’s a big difference between show twenty and show one hundred as far as being comfortable in a band. All the guys made me very welcome.
It was also fun to have Patti, cos nobody sings like Steve and Bruce – they’re like Mick and Keith; they got that rough raw thing, and I don’t have that high raw voice that Steve does, which is a beautiful rock voice. It was great to have Patti there cos she can sing gentle or rough and high or low and she was the new singer in the band, so when everyone else was busy being who they were we could get together, singing working on songs every night and somebody to just kind of brush up on, the singing and the playing before every show.
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I read that you were very much one for following your own instincts. Do you believe in following your instincts? Do you think that’s the right way to go?
I thin it is but you also have to temper your instincts with a good reality check. For instance you write a song, it might be a corny country song, I got a song called ‘Dalmatian’ about a fireman and his dog. I love it. Even though I love this song you play it for people and they’re like ‘yeah whatever’. What I mean by instinct is you have a song you love but you’ve got to be realistic and realise you’re not going to go to the record company and say, ‘Hey, I got this great song about a fireman and his dog, it’s going to be a big number one hit. You’re going to promote it – it’s going to be the centrepiece of our new record’ – you can’t do that.
Sometimes your gonna have to really temper with reality and that’s what a lot of artists don’t do and even to this day I do that. Sometimes I try guitar parts and they’re just not working. When I’m sitting in a hotel room they’re like, ‘yeah this is going to be great’, but then when you get with the band if it’s not working you have to edit yourself quickly, you’ve gotta fit into your environment and you can also chose your environment. You could play your own music and accept you’re not going to get a record deal or accept it’s going to be a small audience and be happy with that.
You have to temper with what your wants are and desires are while you maintain your integrity and respect for your art and you have to decide what the boundaries are. Trusting your instincts is a good idea as long as you temper it with the reality of what your needs are and that includes being an adult who wants to pay your own way and have some more time in his life too.
How do you live with any mistakes you’ve made?
I’m a human being, I make mistakes every day, I’ve make mistakes on stage. My whole life I’ve improvised my solos in my sets and I love the improvised, reckless nature of rock ‘n’ roll which I fell in love with after being a classical accordionist where there’s only one way to play the notes. You can internalise feeling inside the notes but you must play them exactly as written. So rock ‘n’ roll to me there’s a freedom and recklessness that I always integrate into what I do and yeah sometimes I make stupid mistakes but the nice thing about being on the road is you get another chance in a night or two and I focus on the next chance not the mistake I make ‘cause I make them every night.
You’re obviously a well-known name internationally and you work with guys who are internationally acclaimed but you’re just a normal guy. How do you stay grounded?
I feel like I was raised by two great parents, my dad’s been gone for fifteen years and I miss him terribly. When I grew up in the ’60s I had a lot of great musical adventures but I never had that giant hit record where everyone was running around doing everything for you and I think that gave me some perspective too. Even back in ’82 I couldn’t get a record deal, people would tell me I’m a dinosaur and again in the ’90s I had trouble. That helped me stay grounded. I’ve never had the big hit record, I’d love to have one, not for the commercial value and freedom of it, just to reach people, you make records to reach people but I’m very grateful that people show up and hear me play.
I don’t care if it’s three hundred people in a pub or a hundred people in a theatre. I just love that people show up and it’s exciting to have the challenge to feel like you have the tools. You have a crew, you have a band or a buddy to do an acoustic show with. If you stay focussed and do your job right it’s going to be a special job for everybody and that’s the job I love. The main goal is you do something you’re excited with and passionate about and hopefully some people get it and you can share it. I’ve got a family that keeps me from getting too big of a head. Bruce is a very stunning, talented, formidable musician, great guy, so when you’re out with him people are attracted a little bit more to the whole circus and that includes me, but I’m a fan too.
I’m happy to sit around and talk about Bruce and his music and the band but when I get home I’ve got a good circle of friends, I’ve got a great family, three brothers, a lot of nieces and nephews. My brothers get up and play with me sometimes when I’m doing my acoustic show. I played basketball my whole life, played sports, I loved watching sports and playing it. I don’t go out at night when I’m home, I love to jam with people but I don’t have to be out every night in the bar jamming. I love to be at home with my dog s and cat and my wife and my teenage stepson is just down the road. Just kind of leading a quite life and plugging away on my new instruments and working away on a new body of songs in my home studio. It’s a great journey I’ve had for forty-two years.
What’s your one big piece of advice for somebody who’s looking to follow in your footsteps into the musical world?
Don’t get into trouble with alcohol and drugs. It’s a dead end and it will destroy your creativity or kill you or both. Don’t sign anything. Technology gives you the freedom to make music, share it and really get a feel for the landscape in front of you without signing your life away and your freedom away. Just be cautious and stay engaged and excited whether it’s instrumentation, learning a bit of engineering, writing, trying out your ideas. I learnt a long time ago that as a professional writer I’m just so critical of myself that I spend a few months giving myself permission to write as a hobby.
I write stupid country songs, some of them I’ll demo up, just for the act of remembering how my machinery works and some of them I’m embarrassed by and I laugh at and I would never play them to anybody, some of them I might play for somebody. It’s just the act of creating. It doesn’t mean you have to share every poem you write with everyone. You can write a lot of stuff and decided you don’t want to share it with anybody but it’s just the act of creating. The main thing is to keep your options open and keep an eye on your spiritual and physical health as you navigate everything and anything.
Interview by Simon Harper
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Nils Lofgren's UK tour begins October 27th in Bexhill, concluding in Watford on November 22nd. For full dates and ticket info, visit www.nilslofgren.com
