“It’s the thing that people ask me, why is my music so sad, so heartbreaking? Why do you think so? Look at how my life turns out every time!” laughs Epik High’s frontman Tablo, a hand over his forehead in frustration. It’s a late Wednesday night in Seoul, and this is the last Zoom interview of a night unlike others — he just tested positive for COVID-19. However, an insidious virus was not enough to make him cancel his schedules. Not when, in five days, the final part of Epik High’s 10th album ‘Epik High is Here 下 (Part 2)’, would be out in the world.
A trailblazing trio formed by Tablo, Mithra Jin, and DJ Tukutz, Epik High debuted in 2003. Their singular blend of hip-hop and sharp lyrics, which openly discuss themes like mental health and social issues, turned them into one of the most pivotal groups in Korean music. Throughout their twenty years together, they released hundreds of anthemic songs, inspired artists like BTS, and were the first Korean act to play at Coachella in 2016 — a feat they will repeat this year after their 29-date North American tour, set to start on March 1st.
While 2021’s ‘Epik High is Here 上 (Part 1)’ was “a look at the world as it is,” according to Mithra Jin via email, ‘Part 2’ was supposed to celebrate the end of the pandemic. But as the situation continued to develop, the group changed the tone. “We took out some songs, and I actually like what it is now, because I feel like more people can identify with feeling lonely, feeling lost,” says Tablo.
That’s what their main goal is: to show listeners that, even though they might feel lonely, they aren’t alone. “Your life has meaning. It is worth it. Love yourself,” says Mithra Jin of the main message in this album. “Our current point is called ‘here’,” says DJ Tukutz, also via email. “Everyone has a goal and tries to move towards it, but most people don't know where [they are] today and what it means.” The goal is to flow with uncertainty, not against it. Just remember that you, like Epik High, are here.
Below is our conversation with Tablo about the new album, hating oneself, and the metaverse.
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‘Epik High is Here 上 (Part 1)’ uses the hanja (Chinese characters incorporated in the Korean language) 上 [sang], and ‘Part 2’ uses 下 [ha], which respectively mean “beginning” and “ending”. Can you talk more about what they represent in the albums?
A lot of novels in Korea are divided into 上 / 下, and perhaps it’s because people don’t have the time to read all the way through? I honestly don’t know why, but so many books in Korea while I was growing up were divided that way. I liked it, because you can read the first part, and then it forces you to take a break before moving onto the next part. It makes you think about where you were and where you’re heading. I feel like that’s where we are in life as well.
I noticed that the first and last words that you say in the album are both “here”. Was that intentional too?
Yeah, it definitely was.
The last sentence that you say is precisely “Epik High was here”. If Epik High isn’t here anymore, where are they now?
I don’t know why I said that. Tukutz was like, “I’m going to record, just say something at the end to wrap up the album,” and that was the first thing that came to mind. I don’t really care if I’m remembered as a particular thing. All that I’m asking for is that people remember that Epik High was here. Maybe you liked Epik High for a month, or maybe there were two songs that you liked, but that’s enough for me. If people remember that we were here, and that we gave them a little bit of something, that’s enough to keep us alive.
There are a lot of references to your past works in this album. Not only in ‘Prequel’, which is an ode to your history, but also in ‘Rain Song’, in ‘Face ID’, and in featured artists with whom you've worked in the past, such as Younha and Lee Hi. Was looking back on the things that you've done one of your intentions for this album?
It's impossible for any artist that has been doing it for over 10 years, nearly 20 years, to do anything that isn't also looking at the past, right? Anytime you're looking at the future, you're also looking at the past. I don't even see [them] as two separate things. I feel like the future, the present, and the past are one thing.
If you listen to the last song of the album, ‘Champagne’, the audio clip at the beginning is from the very first Epik High concert. But listening to it now, it doesn't feel like it's the past. It feels like it's happening somewhere, a different version of us. A version that didn't go through everything we went through. And that's why, in our music, we'll reference things that happened a long time ago, and simultaneously talk about things that are currently happening. That's how the human mind works. It's all happening simultaneously, if that makes any sense.
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It does. It reminds me of the concept of being present in the moment, that everything is only happening now. The past doesn't exist, and the future also doesn't.
Yeah, and that's another thing about it. Because I will think back to the past, I will learn from it and stuff, but I don't want to be perpetually [there]. Some people can't get over their past glory. In Epik High our personalities don't work that way, so we don't really care. I think the best thing you can be is here, now.
‘Part 1’ was released right after 2020, which was that mess of a year, as we all know. Now that we're two years into the pandemic, our outlook and perspective has changed — and continues to change. How did that influence ‘Part 2’?
As we were making ‘Part 2’, we imagined that [the pandemic] would be completely over by the time we released it. The album was more fun and happy, the music was intended to be a celebration of all that being over. We were actually going to release it right after ‘Part 1’, but then it just kept going. We were like, “There's no way that this is going on for more than a year, right?” And then the next year came, and it just kept going. So I think we got sad, and started making music that was more true to how we felt.
Talking about sadness, this was also something that caught my attention while I was listening to the album. In ‘Gray, so Gray’ and ‘I Hated Myself’, you approach feelings of hate towards yourself and thinking you’re a bad person. Hate is a strong word. How does that play out in your life?
I don't think my parents meant to do this, but the way they raised me, they forced me to hate myself a lot. I was made to achieve things not because I wanted them, but because I needed to avoid the alternative, which was failure. And my parents were super religious, so I was taught to be good because if you're not good, you will go to hell. I was made to live in fear. I'm not saying this because I think my parents were bad people, everyone was doing that at the time. It's just the way a lot of people were raised around me.
I realised that had made my life very miserable for so long. When bad things happened to me publicly, like the ‘TaJinYo’ scandal [in 2010, an internet group accused Tablo of faking his graduation at Stanford University. The accusations were proven false, but the backlash was so intense that it “nearly destroyed my life”, he told NME last year], you know what I thought to myself? “Hate me all you want, likely you won't be able to hate me as much as I've hated myself my whole life. Take your best shot, because I have such thick skin.”
I don't want any of my fans, or anybody listening to my music, to ever experience that kind of life where you're doing good things because you're afraid of the punishment, or the repercussions. I want people to aspire, and to dream, and to live because they want to. I don't want them to dream as an alternative to every nightmare that's been planted in their heads.
I appreciate that Epik High isn't afraid to talk about those things. I think everyone feels like that, one time or another. And religion can truly brainwash you in a way that's really hard to change, even when you're not religious anymore.
I had a pretty weird upbringing. I didn't even realise how much it messed me up until maybe five, six years ago. Like, “Oh, my god, so much happiness could have been had.” But I didn't know how to be happy. It's referenced in ‘I Hated Myself’, but I was taught to love everybody but me. If anybody is feeling that way, Epik High is here.
Do you think you have learned how to love yourself?
What happened was that [my daughter] Haru was born. And it's like myself doesn't even matter anymore, because I love her probably a lot more than I love myself. In a way, it’s like loving myself. It's just weird. I don't think I've ever loved myself. Or known how to. But then, with my wife and my daughter, I learned to love other people. As a result, I think I am doing much better with being okay with myself.
The album packaging for ‘Part 2’ is so gorgeous, and it’s also reminiscent of the packaging for your 2014 album, ‘Shoebox’. What was the thought process behind it?
It [was done by] the artist that we always work with. I told him that I wanted something that's just beautiful to look at, something that isn’t dark. Same with ‘Shoebox’. Then, when you open the box and listen to it, the music is often dark and sad, but it's in a beautiful box, right? That's what humans are. They look amazing on the outside, and then inside there's so much more. I like our album art to be a little bit deceptive.
It's also how life is, and music too. Even if a song is sad, it can also be beautiful. What’s the main message that you wanted to convey with this album?
I don't think I'm capable of making people feel awesome, or pumped. I can't do what DJ Khaled does, for example. But what I can do is make people feel okay with not being awesome. To feel like everything is not the way it should be, to feel sad, but to feel that that's okay. There's a song called ‘SuperRare’ [in the album], which has this exact message: everybody is super rare. You’re one out of one. You can't be replicated, regardless of whether or not you like yourself.
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You said on Twitter that you were one of the first victims of the metaverse, and I agree that we've been living in one for quite a while. What are your thoughts on this moment that we're in? How do you think it affects music?
This metaverse word is basically for marketing purposes. If you put “metaverse” in whatever you do now, it will be a lot easier to get investments. But what happened to me 10 years ago [the ‘TaJinYo’ scandal] was the epitome of metaverse, where people online created this reality, and it actually destroyed my real life. Things that were said about me online were more real than real. And that’s what the metaverse aspires to be.
I have this policy for myself — I never question the way society goes. I study it, I look at it, and then I’ll try to learn how to navigate in that reality. I think it’s a waste of time to argue. When smartphones came out, there was the whole debate of “Should people be carrying around a computer? Should you be on your phone all the time?” And now, when you look back, it makes no sense. I was like, “Is our opinion right now going to change the fact that this is going to become the norm? Because it’s obviously going to become the norm.” Any new development in the world, I’ll just look at it from a scientist's perspective. My opinion doesn’t matter at all.
I think that’s one of the reasons why Epik High is still doing music, too. You aren’t stuck in the past, you keep updating yourselves and changing with the world.
Yeah. If this metaverse or whatever becomes the real thing, if more people gather there, then that’s where we will perform. I want to make people happy, and wherever people are is wherever Epik High will be.
I've heard that this might be Epik High’s last big press run for a while. Can you talk more about that decision?
We’re not saying we’re gonna quit. I don’t even think that’s possible. You can quit your job, but this has become more than a job, we’re like family now, and you can’t quit your family. But I do feel like ten studio albums wrap up a very long chapter, and we never want to be in a position where we are creating stuff just because. I also have other projects that I’m interested in, and other passions that I want to try. We just put out two full albums back-to-back, it’s a lot of work. We’re going to perform a lot with this album, but after that I think we need a little break.
It’s a shame that you aren’t coming to Europe for this tour…
I don’t think it’s us not going to Europe, I think Europe won’t let us come [because of COVID-19 restrictions]. But we are planning it. Hopefully soon.
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‘Epik High is Here 下 (Part 2)’ is out now.
Words: Tássia Assis / @_tassia_a
Photo Credit: OURS Co
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