Since we praised the already classic documentary ‘Anvil! The Story of Anvil’ last year, the veteran Canadian metallers have gone from strength to strength. With the film now released on DVD and Blu-ray, we spoke to vocalist / guitarist Steve ‘Lips’ Kudlow and drummer Robb Reiner the day before they headlined the Tuborg Stage at Download Festival.
– – –
You’ve got Download coming up this weekend, AC/DC tour dates confirmed… everything is going great for you. But when director Sascha Gervasi suggested making a film about you, what difference did you think it would make to your career?
Steve ‘Lips’ Kudlow: I knew that it would make us extraordinarily famous. That was my first impression. It was the chance of not only a lifetime, but a million lifetimes. This is a really serious Cinderella story. You meet a kid at 15 years old and he grows up to be a screenwriter. The band that he grew up with and was such a massive influence on him as a kid, he comes back and makes a movie about them. All the things had to be in place for this to work: a band that not everyone has heard of and is somewhat obscure and yet not obscure enough that they didn’t get to do records. To us, we made it. We made it a long time ago. Making it to us is having the ability to be able to write songs and the ability to exist as a band for as long as our hearts desire. That’s success – to keep making records, to keep touring, to keep active. That’s part of the reason why we’re going to be successful, we’re always ready.
Robb Reiner: There was and still is a running joke. “Is this film going to help the band?” That was what I always said.
Lips: From the onset of it, I’ve been like, “This is going to be huge! Don’t you see?” Even to Sascha I’m going: “Don’t you know what you’ve made?” and he’s going: (adopts stereotypical cockney accent) “Relax mate, it’s just you guys.” He always looked at things with a very hopeful and optimistic view, but with caution. He’d say: “Do you realise how many things have to fall in place for this thing to be successful? This isn’t 20th Century Fox or MGN or Paramount, it’s just us.” I had these visions of everything I could see happening. The real truth is that I guess that infectiousness and my optimism was spread out from day one.
Robb: It’s a very pleasant and welcome surprise beyond our expectations and the movie has changed things. But we’re here to rock now, so let’s open the doors and come in and rock.
It’s easy to forget that between the film’s opening scenes of playing a huge festival in Japan and its main content that Anvil had a long history. What were the highs and lows in between?
Lips: All through the 1990s we were recording records.
Robb: We kept going all the way.
Lips: We kept going all the way, and to us it’s been like one big long career that never really stopped. It never really got better and it never really got worse…
Robb: We were always waiting to be discovered.
Lips: Yeah! When you see us in ’84 when we were playing that festival, it’s not like we were doing that on a consistent basis. We were the opening band there. That was one of those stellar moments in a career – one of, not the almighty, just one of. We played lots of festivals all around the world all through the years. It’s just that one was so well documented and also who we were opening for was notable. But there were lots of other moments all through the years. To us, it’s been one long career; we’ve recorded 13 albums, we’ve been on 100 or 200 tours.
Robb: We’ve been existing on a plateau hoping to get where we are right now. It was the music that got the movie made, and now the movie is opening doors.
Lips: It’s by one of our fans. What could be more beautiful than that? It’s not like some industry guy came in wearing a suit and tie saying, “Let’s make a movie”. No! It was our buddy who we took on the road when he was 15 or 16. We never worried about what the hell we said or did on film. It was complete and utter access because he’s our friend.
Robb: We trusted him and he only wanted to do us good. That was his whole intention. He wanted to get some justice served up and it’s getting served up.
It’s obvious that you two have a very strong bond, is there anything that could crack that or come between you?
Robb: Sure, you never know. Who knows? We’re people, but I hope not.
Lips: We’ll see if fame will do it. Certainly lack of fame didn’t, but we’re willing to try it. Let’s see if money and fame will break up our friendship… (rising laughter from both) we’ve never tried it! Two guys can be buddies forever. Part of it is unleashing the most foul shit on each other. You can’t do that if you haven’t got a friend.
Robb: The friend thing is there but as long as we can keep the music lit… We’ve been able to do that as we want to work together and be together. That’s why we’ve been doing it, because we create music that makes us happy and because we really love it. We’re doing it because we’ve got to do it.
In the film you’re praised by people like Slash and Anthrax’s Scott Ian. Why do you think those guys made it while you existed on your plateau?
Robb: We influenced a lot of bands.
Lips: We came into the neighbourhood before they did. Simple as that. Just as we paid homage to all the bands that came before us, they paid homage to us and the other bands that came before them.
Robb: It’s always been transparent. We’ve always known that our music meant something, that’s not a surprise to us. But it was very beautiful as people that they went along and told the world. That’s very commendable.
Lips: In heavy metal, musicians love integrity and sticking to your guns. The other thing that they love is uniqueness, the non-commercial aspect and artistic integrity. Real musicians really love that stuff. We never had management – no management, no proper record deal….
Robb: We make the music for ourselves.
Lips: …No producers, taking everything on ourselves. You’re driving the ship yourself. The direction you take, the music you play, the way it’s recorded, where it’s recorded… every aspect is hands on. We’ve existed that way and that’s something to be proud of. And we’ve been able to exist that way for all these years. There’s a following that was there from the beginning and has been there all the way through. Those people, bless them, because if they hadn’t been here, we wouldn’t be here. You need a following to be able to pay for your records.
What about the media? Your media coverage say, five or ten years ago must’ve been limited to the specialist metal press?
Lips: Yeah, it was metal driven, grassroots stuff.
Robb: This movie has got this much press (makes a large open handed gesture) and the metal press is this much (makes a much smaller gesture).
Lips: This is somewhat of a unique situation because you don’t see the merging of the two worlds very often. And when you do it’s rarely as compelling as this story. It was our fan who was 15 years old who did this movie. That’s extraordinary. And this 15 year old grew up to be a Spielberg screenwriter. All these little components that built up for this to happen is nothing short of miraculous.
What about the people who are attracting your interest from outside of metal? Do you ever think, “If you’d been there five or ten years ago to give us a boost, things might’ve been a little easier?”
Lips: No, I think everything happens in a certain way to make things successful. Even the state of the economy at the moment is crucial to the success of this movie. As melancholy and sad as it may seem in a certain sense, guys persevering against the odds – we all are now. Everyone’s a Lips and a Robb. We’re all fighting for our positions in the world. We’re all trying to keep it together, trying to make it work and trying to get to our goals. It’s like Lemmy says in the movie: “The right place at the right time”. And if you’re not there, you’ll never make it.
Is that the one piece of advice you’d give to new bands starting out today?
Lips: Yes, it’s randomness. The only way you can win in a state of randomness is to keep existing your whole life. Because if you don’t, you’ll miss the opportunity when it comes. You’ve got to keep doing it and stay active and keep doing it with all your heart. That’s the only way you have a chance to make it. Some make it sooner, some make it later, but the bottom line is that if you keep your band together and the dream alive, you have a chance. As soon as you stop, you have no more chance. Quitters never win.
So with that in mind, where do you want Anvil to be in, say, five years time?
Robb: Being, hopefully, the number one metal band on the planet. Sell lots of records and keep playing shows endlessly. That would be pretty good for me. Taking a couple of good vacations.
Living the dream?
Lips: Living the dream! That’s what we hope.
Robb: We are living the dream. We’re living the American dream. It’s unbelievable.
Lips: In a certain sense we’ve been living the dream our whole lives, but now we really are. Like, oh, that part of the dream! I’d forgot about that.
Robb: That’s pretty much it. To keep making music, keep touring and enjoying some success.
Are you worried that when this film’s life comes to an end that Anvil will be back to what it was?
Lips: It’s impossible. How can you take away all we’ve done? Once everybody knows who we are, there’s 13 albums to be purchased.
Robb: And rock concerts to go to.
Lips: It will never go back to how it was because the obscurity is gone. We are famous. It’s already too late. I’m not saying it in a boastful way, I’m saying it as a matter of fact. Once everybody knows who you are it’s too late. You can’t all of a sudden erase everybody’s memory. It’s not going to happen. People want to anticipate what we’re gonna come up with.
Robb: We’ll move onto our next album and just carry on. Our fans are there anyway and all the new people are new, so hopefully we’re gonna stick around.
When’s the new album due? What sort of approach is it?
Robb: It’s called ‘Juggernaut of Justice’. We’re really going to try and put it out next year. It’s more Anvil. We feel it’s the best album we’ve ever done.
Lips: And it’s very important for us to feel like that.
Robb: It’s got some new things on it, some fresh ideas like jazz-metal as an example.
Lips: We’re giving it at all levels and doing the best we can, like we always have, and nothing is contrived.
Robb: It’s appropriately titled ‘Juggernaut Of Justice’.
Lips: Yet another alliteration! (in reference to past album titles including ‘Metal On Metal’, ‘Speed Of Sound’ and ‘Worth The Weight’). And of course the cover is going to have an anvil on it, but we’re not going to give away exactly what it is.
Is it an anvil smashing a juggernaut?
Cue awkward silence, nervous laughter and concluding thanks
Anvil! The Story Of Anvil is out now on DVD and Blu-ray; click HERE for further details. Find Anvil on MySpace HERE.
