Black Sheep Interview

The summer of love arrived in Queens three decades late. By 1990 the Native Tongues crew was fully fledged – a collective of young rappers and producers that included Black Sheep, A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and the Jungle Brothers. They created a sound that hadn’t been heard so far – one that mixed jazz samples, a light, playful tone of MCing and lyrics that dealt the fleeting concerns of a kid growing up in the New York summer.

While those halcyon days came back to haunt Dres from Back Sheep, right now they taste sweet. June sees the release of his 'From the Black Pool of Genius' album, which features contributions from four members of the dispersed click.

Black Sheep’s LP 'A Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing' has a place in The Source magazine’s all-time top 100 hip hop albums and is vintage golden age. Cuts like 'The Choice is Yours' [from where Fatman Scoop sampled fresher’s week rallying cry “Engine engine number nine / one the New York transit line”] and particularly 'Flavor of the Month' sealed their trademark – heatwave-languid MCing and trumpet and double bass-sampling production, with lyrics like "I don’t punch girls / and I don’t punch a clock" echoing the simplicity of latter day boom-bap rap.

Dres caught up with Clash from Queens New York to talk about his new project and the Native Tongues era.

How’s the album going?

I’m just finishing mastering – I’m really excited - this is probably the first project where I’ve had a bunch of guest slots on it - I’ve got Q-Tip, Dave from De La Soul, Mike Gee from Jungle Brothers altogether on one track, ‘Birds of a Feather’, I’ve got the Beatnuts and Showbiz [produced KRS-One’s Sound of Da Police] on production, Jean Grae, AZ and Rhymefest amongst others.

Where are you from in Queens and what was it like growing up there?

I’m from Astoria Queens. My man Q-Tip’s from Jamaica Queens. Queens is without question a melting pot for hip hop creativity. I came up in the day where hip hop wasn’t something everyone heard every day; as a result it was something that we held close to. Queens is where peeps like Run-D.M.C. came from and plenty of unsung cats that you might not have even heard from, like the Disco Twins, Mikey Cees - plenty of cats that learned from me, and plenty that I learned from. There was a good friend of mine who would have been in Black Sheep with me and Mista Lawnge [Black Sheep member who departed in 2006], dude by the name of Rockwell, who ended up getting locked up. I used to be in a crew called the Chosen Crew, and I also used to represent the Bum Rush crew – we used to run around Queens and just have a good time. I ended up naming my label after them.

Do you see a shift in the scene now?

Hip hop in New York was just beautiful back in the day – much more so as opposed to now. I think overseas, in the UK and Europe, you get purists, cats are more into the real elements of hip hop, whereas in the US they not. However I’m definitely seeing a changing of the guard, with music moving towards the creativity, as opposed to being money-driven. It’s definitely going more towards cats making character statements and that’s what it’s about for me.

How did you connect with the Native Tongues crew?

Lawnge met DJ Red Alert when he was in North Carolina. Red Alert came down to do a show in North Carolina with Sparky D and the Real Roxanne, and Lawnge was cutting up before the show. and Red took note that this cat, who was so small he was standing on milk crates, was cutting up quite precisely, so Red said, ‘Yo where you from? Of course they were both from New York, so they ended up building a relationship, and he wound up being in the studio for the Jungle Brothers’ first album – Lawnge did the cuts on Buddy [Classic De La Soul cut featuring Q-Tip, and Jungle Brothers] and established a relationship with De La and Tribe before Tribe’s first album.

And then you got involved?

Yeah - me and Lawnge ended up bumping heads when we got back from New York, we ended up cutting it up together ‘cause he didn’t have a place to stay and I had an apartment. From there we started putting stuff together, he introduced me to the Natives, and the relationship was built from there.

What were the Native Tongue collaborations like?

We used to hang out and kick lyrics all the time. We all used to go to each other’s studio sessions - we were always building together. And they were real selfless sessions, you could comment on anything, and everybody would build on it, nobody was egotistical – it was a real cool time and space when we were all just young cats and artistic and everybody would help each other out, and everybody would have an opinion on anybody’s session. If the beat would sound hot, we’d all grab pens and paper, someone would come up with a concept and we’d build around it. We had lots of good times, and we helped each other grow. Revisiting it these days, I’m keen to put together a Native Tongues situation together so far as touring and putting records together. That’s why I’m so happy to be releasing this single, with Q-Tip, Dave and Mike Gee.

It was a golden age in hip hop - a real pure time in the music – when cats weren’t so caught up in your perception of their music but were secure of their own perception of themselves. It wasn’t so much ‘you looked at me and what you saw and what I owned’ – more about you respecting who I was.

Was it a hippy era in a way, with De La and the A Tribe Called Quest ethic?

On a certain level, but then with any cat from New York – if you cross that line, you get to see another side of a person. But people like De La, or Tribe, we’re not leading with bravado so much as kinship and unity and empowerment and making positive moves together. That’s something that rap music has stepped away from – it’s about individuals. I heard a poet say: “If you take hip hop and flip it backwards you get ‘pihpoh’ [people] know what I’m saying? It’s about people. It’s about a community.

Definitely – because on the beginning of Forever Luvlee [new track] you’re parodying the bling lifestyle...

For real. Just poking a little fun. That’s my way of stressing that I’m for the hood, I’m for the struggle. And that’s worth more for me than ice and diamonds.

Words by Miguel Cullen

The 'From the Black Pool of Genius' album is out this month, while Black Sheep are set to play the Jazz Cafe in London on June 4.